New 4 speed ratchet top owner problems

[89octane]

So Im a first time shovel owner with a later 4 speed ratchet top, open primary. The bike runs tits but there is some clutch, tranny problems. The clutch violently grabs and makes a grind sound when I take off unless I baby the shit out of it. Did some research and noticed my clutch is out of adjustment. The clutch arm and cable are under alot of constant tension. No free play. I adjusted so the arm and cable have slight free play as instructed but now the clutch drags slightly. Grabbing problem still persists. After a few short rides I noticed the main seal is leaking oil into the clutch. Is the oil contaminated clutch most likely the reason for the grabbing? Also, when adjusting the clutch I noticed the basket is walking a bit. I’m not sure what clutch I have but I don’t think it’s factory. I’ve read the big fix bearing kit, clutch tamer retainer can remedy this? Basically I wanna replace the main seal and whatever else I need all in one shot. Such as the bearing kit, tamer or ramjet retainer, super nut. Whatever I need. What do you guys recommend? Thanks

[Dragstews]

I would recommend a full re-build ..

[89octane]

Of the whole tranny? You really feel that’s necessary? I have reason to believe this tranny was recently rebuilt. I’m not sure why the main seal failed, it very well could be a worn main shaft or something, but the tranny itself seems to operate just fine aside from leaking main seal

[Dragstews]

Would you say that your tranny is a 78 .. ??

If indeed it is, you may find a Torrington 4th gear bearing in the case ..
Those are very acceptable to ware ...

[89octane]

The code on the front kicker side of the case starts with an “x” which from my research indicates a 1977

[heyyodho]

Yes oil contamination will cause the grabby issue. Clutch basket walking will cause the dragging issue. Scrub your friction plates clean with low grit sand paper or use the sidewalk. Clutch tamer will address the basket walking on you.

[docmel]

Main seal or mainshaft is causing the leak and it will get worse. Tamers, super nuts and the likes wont fix that: I couldnt agree more: Rebuild the tranny, paying close attention to mainshaft specs: If its worn, all the new seals in the world wont work. Need to take a close look at worn rollers in the clutch basket as well as a worn basket where the rollers are, clean inspect all clutch parts

[89octane]

Gotcha. Ok thank you for the info guys I appreciate it. I think for now I’m gonna take the clutch and sprocket off and inspect everything. Check for play in the shaft, or any clues there. If no red flags, I’m gonna replace the seal and any clutch parts needed and give it a go. If the seal leaks again, I’ll know for sure something else is wrong. I’d just like to ride this damn thing a bit before I tear it all apart. I’m not worried about rebuilding it but I’m not one of you vets that can probly whip one of these out over a 6 pack

[TriNortchopz]

I thought it could be as simple as a nick in the seal lip from poor installation by the previous rebuilder... but...

as noted above, in a previous 2018 CC thread, Drag noted that poor OEM bearing

"Ya got one of these weak-ass bearings in it ..."

OEM No: 8905
Torrington transmission main drive bearing for Big Twin models.
Bearing measures 2.005" outer diameter x .61" wide x 1.638" inner diameter.
Fits:
FX 1977-1981
FL 1977-1981

http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51618

found this interesting pdf article:

FINALLY a CURE for the always leaking for the 4 speed tranny, not a Band-Aid, a REAL SOLUTION

"...the fourth gear bushing is often loose on the mainshaft...press out old one, machine a new one from continuous cast bronze 660... machine the bushing to have less than 0.001" clearance on the shaft... modify the end of the gear by machining the recess deeper; 7/16" instead of OEM 3/16" to put two seals in the end of the fourth gear...
now fix the spacer, oil can leak between the spacer and the shoulder of the gear... machine a new one from from C1144 steel with an o-ring groove inside so no oil can escape...
Note: the Andrews gear (late model) is now using an o-ring on the shoulder of their gear...
There is at least 5 types of spacers needed to do this modification depending on the year of your transmission...but they all have the same inside diameter... leak problem solved for those with the 4 speed, from early Knucklehead, Panhead to the Shovelhead era."
Ray Dug uay

see the full article with photos here:

https://www.shovelhead.us/pics/sheets/leakingtranny.pdf

[89octane]

I thought it could be as simple as a nick in the seal lip from poor installation by the previous rebuilder... but...

as noted above, in a previous 2018 CC thread, Drag noted that poor OEM bearing

"Ya got one of these weak-ass bearings in it ..."
[ATTACH=CONFIG]110285[/ATTACH]
OEM No: 8905
Torrington transmission main drive bearing for Big Twin models.
Bearing measures 2.005" outer diameter x .61" wide x 1.638" inner diameter.
Fits:
FX 1977-1981
FL 1977-1981

http://www.chopcult.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51618

found this interesting pdf article:

FINALLY a CURE for the always leaking for the 4 speed tranny, not a Band-Aid, a REAL SOLUTION

"...the fourth gear bushing is often loose on the mainshaft...press out old one, machine a new one from continuous cast bronze 660... machine the bushing to have less than 0.001" clearance on the shaft... modify the end of the gear by machining the recess deeper; 7/16" instead of OEM 3/16" to put two seals in the end of the fourth gear...
now fix the spacer, oil can leak between the spacer and the shoulder of the gear... machine a new one from from C1144 steel with an o-ring groove inside so no oil can escape...
Note: the Andrews gear (late model) is now using an o-ring on the shoulder of their gear...
There is at least 5 types of spacers needed to do this modification depending on the year of your transmission...but they all have the same inside diameter... leak problem solved for those with the 4 speed, from early Knucklehead, Panhead to the Shovelhead era."
Ray Dug uay

see the full article with photos here:
https://www.shovelhead.us/pics/sheets/leakingtranny.pdf

I did find that article. Very awesome stuff. But I don’t have a lathe. You would figure how popular these trannys are, someone in the aftermarket would have figured something out besides a double lip seal and a super nut. However like they mentioned above, if the main shaft is pooched, not much you can do. We will see what I find. I’m waiting on a clutch basket puller and a big ass sprocket nut socket so I can even start tearing into it

[TriNortchopz]

if the main shaft is pooched, not much you can do.

go to your local machinist, cleanup the shaft as required, machine a new bushing for 0.001" clearance... but then it will always require that 'custom' bushing - not that big of a deal.

[JBinNC]

go to your local machinist, cleanup the shaft as required, machine a new bushing for 0.001" clearance... but then it will always require that 'custom' bushing - not that big of a deal.

This doesn't really work for the bikes with aluminum primaries, because the mainshaft diameter must be maintained in order to be a good fit at the inner primary bearing and seal. It would work just fine for the tin primary models where there is no outboard bearing.

[JBinNC]

A leaking transmission mainshaft seal (seals, there are two) won't get oil on your clutch. Any leaked oil will be slung by the clutch hub, and end up on the bike and maybe you. If you are getting transmission oil in your clutch, it is coming from the pushrod seal in the clutch hub nut, and that is an EASY fix. That seal is #12014.

Original complaint sounds like a classic case of clutch chatter, and that can be caused by several problems. The belt primary drives are more susceptible to the problem. My approach to these clutches is to use the stock clutch hub bearing assembly along with a RamJett style retainer. Then get a new Alto red clutch kit, a set of the -81 style steels, an aluminum pressure plate, and a set of the Barnett red (actually kind of orange) springs. That recipe has served me very well for chain or belt primary drives for any of the pans or shovels up to about 75 HP. Some have had good luck with the long roller hub bearing kits, but I find that they tend to make the clutch drag, and I have never failed to improve a clutch by taking those long rollers out, and returning to the stock bearing. I think those kits would best be used on the three inch belt kits because you got a lot of stuff hangin' way out there. Of course these clutches do rattle like crazy on a belt primary drive, but "it is what it is."

A cronic leaky transmission is usually down to the main drive gear bushing/mainshaft fit, and as D said above, a full rebuild done by someone competent is the only sure cure. And by the way, if you have a good bushing, there is no need whatsoever to double up on the mainshaft seal. If one seal won't seal it, two won't either.

My 2c only,
Jim

[JBinNC]

Oh, and one other thing: if the sprocket nut is loose, the transmission will leak, period. And loose sprocket nuts are very common. I recommend 120 ft.lb. and red Loctite on that nut. Correct socket for that nut is a MUST!

Jim

[89octane]

Hmm, well I definitely have tranny fluid in my clutch. It is flinging all over the bike when I ride it but it also drips off the bottom of the clutch basket after a ride when it’s on the kick stand. Jiffy stand. What have you. And the clutch plates are visibly wet. It does have an aluminum pressure plate. The springs are behind it. Not visible. It’s a 1.5” belt. I grabbed a genuine James main seal kit which does have the 12014 seal in the kit. I’ll make sure to replace that aswell. Bummer to hear about the long bearing kit making the problem worse. All the research I’ve done says it is supposed to help the situation not make it worse. So naturally I own the kit now. I did grab the tamer style kit aswell. Not the ram jett. Oh well they were pretty cheap. I’ll throw it on there and see what happens. The clutch draggin wasn’t much of an issue in the first place. The chatter/grabbing is. But I figured that was due to having an oil contaminated clutch