value of paughco framed bikes

[samsquanch]

Guys, im new here, new to choppers also. A guy near by has been offering to trade me his 1996 paughco fxe with a 78 shovel engine and 4speed kick only tranny for my fatboy. I like the bike But I am unsure of its monetary value and how to get it covered by insurance. Im in Ontario, classic antique insurance can be had on bikes that are 25 years old and older. This qualifies but the whole aftermarket frame thing is weird to me.

Can someone please tell me the ins and outs of this. Also, the value of a paughco equipped as stated vs the value of an actual 78 harley in similar condition. Anything else I am not considering? Thanks.

[Whoremonger]

Go for some long rides with him on yours and you on his especially if his is a hardtail. You may decide its not for you after that.

[ExplodingCoffinEmporium]

Aftermarket frames/custom titles will generally always devalue the chop regardless of it having an HD engine. With that being said Paugcho makes a damn good frame. Insurance can also cost a bit more but it’s easy enough to give your agent a call and run numbers. What years your fatboy, what’s the condition of it? I mean at the end of the day it comes down to comfort, personal taste, and mechanical ability. Pre evo Harley’s all have there quirks and require constant maintenance or pockets deep enough to pay someone to do so. It’s not to say they aren’t reliable but they demand upkeep to be enjoyed, you must commit to this fact or you’ll quickly dislike the machine. What style of riding do you do? A 78’ with a four speed is not gonna run all day as smoothly or likely as comfortably as your fatboy. I’m not trying to steer you away, but more so just laying out the facts of the matter from someone who owns multiple shovels and has also spent considerable time on softails. Spend some solid time to consider what you want from your machine and what will benefit you most.

[farmall]

You'd be trading comfort and reliability for looks. That's why he wants to dump his.

The Paughco frame is structurally fine but remember choppers are folk art first and function comes second. Then study both options, ride his bike and you will be able to make an informed choice for YOUR use case. Canada is a different world so best to find Canadian chopper builders to get correct info.

BTW you can and a fair number of bikers do install a Shovelhead engine into an Evo Softail frame using the Softail primary and gearbox to get an improved Shovelhead drivetrain.

[kestrou]

Well, let's get to the crux of the biscuit: Which is gonna pick up more chicks?

There - decision made!

Kevin

[samsquanch]

Thanks for all the info and perspective guys. This helps. Im leaning towards keeping my current ride and waiting untill I can purchase a bike to chop as a secondary.

2 bikes get twice as many chicks, right?

Thanks guys.

[farmall]

That's the wise move. He who makes his main ride a project if often a pedestrian while when you build it your way you get it your way, and you found the right place to learn how. Building a second bike lets you buy it piece by piece and mix the class Art Deco esthetics of old with tough, reliable modern components where useful.

Chop Cult is a good place to get informed perspective on every nut, bolt and washer. I know nothing about titling owner-built motorbikes in Canada but study that in advance then see which method is most to your advantage.

With a solid plan you can then buy targets of opportunity after saving enough money to have a choice.

Do not bleed cash reserves buying little shit unless that particular part is genuinely rare and desirable. Saving not only gives you a bike reserve but a life reserve (shit happens). A reserve in hand will be useful when the next (inevitable, periodic) recession hits and those who planned less well sell their toys.

Decide in advance if it's worth buying a complete machine (which may be overly expensive in Canada) because if you're going to sell off most of the parts that many not be the best choice.

Buying in pieces gives more options, for example it's nearly the only way to get aftermarket alternator/generator engine cases and crankshaft to suit. That lets you get the sexiest timing covers while running a modern charging system and being able to bolt on a Softail five speed.

Decide if you want a kick only four speed (fuck all that, old age is amazingly horrible and I've seen many bikers sell their beloved rides because they had hip replacements) a four speed with the expensive starter kits that cost (much) more than a Softail five speed with a kicker kit for looks (and maintenance convenience, they're not vital but they're handy), or an abundant Softy five speed.

Decide what frame you prefer including if you want the classic neck etc castings last used on Evo Softails. You can hardtail those frames to get the best of both esthetic worlds (and use an effective seat so your kidneys don't bounce out your asshole). A frame and gearbox that fits belt final drives let you choose between chain or belt. Choice is good.

Plan your front end in advance so you can plan the wheels (assembled or stock) you want to use. If you buy some modestly priced stock wheels in the sizes you want with the hubs you want you can install spokes and rims you want later. If you're cunning you can save money and ride sooner.

It doesn't take long to tear down a stock bike in an orderly manner (take photos and videos if you like, pics beat memory) even if it's yer first time, and the experience of build by either method is worth more than the motorcycle.

Collect photos and download factory manuals and factory parts catalogs for any components you're considering because your tech library is a weapon. If you lack a computer it's easy to adapt phones with MHL video out via USB port but even a shitbox PC or notebook beats a phone and large displays or TVs make viewing much easier.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1465028990466294

[JBinNC]

Good advice above, as always. I take exception to one point. For the novice, buying a project a piece at a time OFTEN leads to frustration and a project that ends uncompleted. This was common in the heyday of the chopper craze, and half-finished bikes could often be found for sale. A better approach, in my opinion, is to settle on the stock bike that most closely conforms to your vision of the finished project. I have a young customer who has done this a couple of times, and actually MADE MONEY on the sale of the completed bike(s). For instance, if you want a shovelhead, buy a SuperGlide or Low Rider and have at it. The best part is you SHOULD get a clear title, and trust me, the savings in headaches alone is worth a lot. Next is, you get all the small components that go into any project, and you can use them or trade them. This is where many projects over the years stumble. The devil, and a good bit of the expense, is in the details.So, save your money and shop, shop, shop until you find the right base bike for YOUR project.

Jim

[Hdshovelfan]

Guys, im new here, new to choppers also. A guy near by has been offering to trade me his 1996 paughco fxe with a 78 shovel engine and 4speed kick only tranny for my fatboy. I like the bike But I am unsure of its monetary value and how to get it covered by insurance. Im in Ontario, classic antique insurance can be had on bikes that are 25 years old and older. This qualifies but the whole aftermarket frame thing is weird to me.

Can someone please tell me the ins and outs of this. Also, the value of a paughco equipped as stated vs the value of an actual 78 harley in similar condition. Anything else I am not considering? Thanks.

I can't give a good appraisal of the value of the bike you're considering, but I can share a bit from personal experience of building and riding a Shovel "chopper" with an aftermarket frame, in Ontario.

Over 20 years ago, I bought a wrecked FLH with a clean 'unfit' title. Back then, there was no 'branding' of a vehicle, if it had been involved in an accident. It was merely stamped unfit and after repair, you got it safetied, insured and you were good to go. Technically, a motorcycle is registered with the VIN from the chassis not the motor. So, a bike titled with the VIN from the motor is not legal. At the time, an appraisal stating that the bike had been rebuilt with an aftermarket frame was provided to the insurance company along with several photos and there was no issue getting it fully insured. Even the cop that ticketed me for Apes didn't care at all that it did not look like a stocker. He liked the bike but dinged me $115 for illegal handlebars.

Since approx 2008, in Ontario, bikes with titles that are branded "salvage" cannot legally be rebuilt. So, sticking a motor in a new frame with the existing title is no longer an option. It would need to be titled as a custom. Apparently this is possible. People do it. But my conversations with the OPP, Service Ontario and MTO shed absolutely no light on how to make it happen.

My bike was on the road until June this year. It had always been my intention to put it back to period correctness, based on the original stock frame, which I have. So I dismantled the bike, sold off the custom frame and a couple other aftermarket pieces and have started the process of resurrecting it as somewhat of stocker.

In recent years, having a "quasi-legal" bike was becoming an issue for me. While insurance companies will cover you with a phone
call, should you ever be involved in a serious accident, you could possibly be denied insurance because of improper registration. Also, riding a rigid in your 60s isn't as fun as it once was...

I also inquired about "antique" insurance at one point. Yes, it is available, but according to the agent I spoke to, it would be good if you rode the bike less than 500kms per year eg: in parades. Also, it would need to be 100% original. Even a paint job could disqualify a bike.

Trading your modern bike for a custom Shovelhead may seem like a fun idea. But you could wind up with something that will not hold its value like your stock Fatboy will. It certainly wouldn't be worthless but could be difficult to get top dollar for it.

Also, you may want to spend some real miles on a rigid before trading your modern bike. For me personally, as much as I love riding the old death-trap, I've had 6 modern 'appliance' bikes go through the garage since I built it. It was never meant to be my one and only bike

[samsquanch]

JbinNC, hdshovelfan and farmall... thank you very much! noted!

[samsquanch]

ive been looking at a few bikes lately and have come across the brand "rebuilt", which i now know means its useless, and another situation where a bikes ownership is a real mess, brand "none", which means good to go, make and model are harley flt, VIN is an aftermarket frame... so what happens when you try to insure it? someone is gonna catch this and change the brand to "rebuilt", "salvage", "home" or "irrepairable" and the bike will be condemned.

our laws are just so fucked there is no way to move forward.

[Revelator]

Well, let's get to the crux of the biscuit: Which is gonna pick up more chicks?

There - decision made!

Kevin

well that rules out any rigid frames, The cushiest seat and suspension gets the chicks.
maybe if the rigid bike had a built in seat vibrator?

[drivermark]

well that rules out any rigid frames, The cushiest seat and suspension gets the chicks.
maybe if the rigid bike had a built in seat vibrator?

But don't they already? They didn't call'em Milwaukee Vibrators for nothin'

[TriNortchopz]

sounds like something here for insurance:

"Dan Avon has been in pillar in the Insurance Industry when it comes to motorcycles since early 2001.
From passion Dan saw an opportunity to insure custom built motorcycles and became wildly successful, that niche turned into insuring Harleys, Motocross, Sport bikes, on-track race bikes, and everyday cruisers. Dan has developed programs, provided assistance to actuarial rates and underwriting for several Insurance Companies, created opportunities for industry related partners and helped to bring an overall awareness of motorcycling to the masses.."

https://theaim.ca/personal-insurance/motorcycle-insurance/

and this for registration:

Registering custom motorcycle in Ontario Canada
"I thought I'd post up my recent experience (spring 2023)...
But - what if you go and buy a custom motorcycle frame from a fancy company somewhere? Perhaps they engrave their own VIN into the frame and issue you a Manufacturer Statement of Origin (MSO) or Certificate (MCO). You weld/grind/bolt a bunch of bits from a bunch of motorcycles onto it and end up with a motorcycle that isn't a Honda or Yamaha or Suzuki or Harley.

As of spring 2023, this is still possible to register in Ontario, contrary to much common thought and urban myth.

First off, this assumes your frame is made by a 'company' and you have a fancy MSO certificate that looks official and it has a unique VIN on it that isn't just a copy of the VIN from a preexisting Yamaha. If you're welding a neck-tube onto a frame, hardtailing a stock frame or re-engraving an existing VIN onto a new frame, this guide doesn't apply..."

https://www.dotheton.com/index.php?threads/registering-custom-motorcycle-in-ontario-canada.78219/#post-956757